@Aelvir “What happened between G4 and G5 is the biggest problem with people judging G5. They don’t judge it as G5, they judge it as “how faithful is it to G4?””
The reason this is happening is because g4 has 10 years of history and was a massive shift in MLP from targeting little girls to being appreciated by pretty much anyone. As a result, as the series progressed the writing became more complex. It wasn’t perfect, there are plot holes especially in later seasons as newer writers ed the crew, though it still maintains an overall stability. G5 is judged so viciously BECAUSE it never tried to stand on it’s own. Before it was even out, it was stated it continued off of G4, and the movie opens with a 2D rendition of the mane six ponies of G4 before we ever see our G5 protagonists. While this was a marketing ploy to try and say “we didn’t forget about G4”, the problem is that instead of merely making G4 references, the plot of G5 exists in G4’s world. G4’s world is complex and has set boundaries, rules, and events that happened. G5 set it’s self up and is riding on the lore, history, and success of G4 as a starting point, so it never HAD a chance to stand on it’s own. I like Hitch, I like Sunny, I like Zipp, and I like Queen Haven, but I can’t appreciate the world they live in or struggles they face due to the fact that it IS G4’s world and last we saw it was beautiful and promising only for it to now be a horrible shell of that wonderful closure. Maybe I could show some interest in pegasi learning to fly again as magic is returned to them, but that’s peanuts compared to asking why everything fell apart, why not just the three tribes were separated but all the species were, why twilight’s message is from her pre-final form indicating whatever happened was BEFORE G4’s ending, and how this threat was somehow so much worse than any of the things that happened in G4 that it required the destruction of equestria as the final answer.
TL:DR: I’m more concerned with what made my friends of 10 years separate and leave than I am knowing why the new kid on the block can’t ride his bike.
“the culture of Dragons Never bring consistent in G4? “
This wasn’t an issue until josh haber ed the writing crew and wrote episodes like there was a reset button at the end. He made a total mess out of the dragons with Sweet and Smoky being an obscenely horrible episode in of lore and consistency. I frequently gripe about said episodes that contradict previous plot points and it’s somewhat universally agreed since said episodes and events in said episodes are usually ignored because of how inconsistent they are.
Back to G5, yes, I do blame Hasbro for making dumb decisions, but I also blame the writers and animation crew for somehow not knowing that they didn’t have free access to G4 and thus to make a cohesive and not botched connection to G4’s world, they would have to shell out a ton of money. This leads to not only really shoddy writing, but also atrocious models for when the characters of G4 ARE shown.
“Why bring up TYT?”
Much like folks bring up Lauren, it’s sometimes used as a counterpoint to defend MYM’s flaws with “you just didn’t watch TYT so you don’t know anything”. It’s rare but happens.
“Also, ponies and dragons dating? I’d like to see an example of that. Because I’ve never seen anything of that in the show.”
@Daneasaur
First, my Point was that The Yaks have always been Self-concerned. They never Chose to help ponies on their own. The only time they did was because of Yona. Not to mention when they needed help the openly refused help and hoped the ponies secretly helped them because they have such fragile Pride. In the case of an emergency, it’s very likely they wouldn’t help.
I never said G5 makes perfect sense. There are flaws in both gens.
I didnt say that because it isn’t explained that it did or did not happen, but rather it could be one or the other. At the end of the day it is that way to leave the viewer to interpret it however they want. What happened between G4 and G5 is the biggest problem with people judging G5. They don’t judge it as G5, they judge it as “how faithful is it to G4?”, and while there are Plot Holes (as did G4) given enough time those CAN be remedied, but because people failed to judge it as a show on its own, it never got that opportunity to improve. As I said, its runtime is only that of 1 Season on FiM.
If you really think that because they didn’t use Finale Twilight’s design is a reason to be frustrated with G4, you should really look back on other things. G4 has done the same. Several ponies have had the same cutie marks, some ponies straight up habe different Cutie Marks constantly (some even in The same episode), or how about the culture of Dragons Never bring consistent in G4? Why blame MYM over something that its Main Producer has stated was not the intention and the higher-ups at Hasbro were to blame? Most of the screwups of MYM is a product of Hasbro making really dumb decisions.
I will agree that TYT’s artstyle isn’t very good, I vastly prefer MYM’s. Pony Life I didn’t have much of a problem with Bit Luna and Starlight not being in it bugged me. As for emotional serious Moments in TYT, there is a few decent emotional moments, but there are basically no serious moments because up until the end of MYM, TYT was primarily meant as a side series of shorts to tide people over until more MYM episodes come out and was more structured like Pony Life was: non-story driven, more silly and less serious. Serious was never TYT’s point. To judge it on that is kind of missing the point.
And I’ll be honest it’s not so much the been faces that kill it for me, it’s all the overuse of magnet hooves and the rubber hose style of limb movement with the show. They move too uncannily for my liking. But I definitely wouldn’t say the artstyle is atrocious, I’ve seen so much worse. But honestly, it’s not surprising Hasbro capitalized on the most popular artstyle for children’s cartoons. Also why even bring up TYT, we weren’t even talking about that.
@Aelvir
The fact that your ing statements as to why G5 “Makes perfect sense and is fine” are “they didn’t say anything about it so it likely happened (that’s the opposite of proof BTW)”, “Yaks would be useless/make it worse (Yaks don’t have magic and are obscenely physically strong to the point they are considered a dangerous nation amidst a world full of magic using creatures, so having them as allies against a magic thief is a very good thing)”, and “the design wasn’t popular so they used her pre-finale look (this made a gaping plothole to save money)”, really should explain why I’m so frustrated with G5.
Also TYT is atrocious. I disliked pony life and I HEAVILY disliked TYT. The art style is very ugly and the “humor” is awful, so any meaningful “emotional” moments or “serious” story fall flat. Spike could look 1000% pure excellent in it and all I would have to say is “You know you messed up big time when the cal arts bean faced show makes a better design than the high buck CGI show.”
@Daneasaur
The villain trio’s plans in S9E17 isn’t exactly a good comparison. You know who was with her during that? Her friends, as well as Discord AND Celestia and Luna. Guess who wasn’t there for Twilight when she was dealing with Opaline? Celestia and Luna, probably Discord, and it’s uncertain whether or not her friends have past away yet at the time. It’s still all conjecture. IF we take into consideration that her friends have long since sed away (given Opaline’s a villain and waiting until her friends away and strike when Twilight is vulnerable would be a villain thing to do). Futhermore, Twilight and her friends managed to fix the fighting amongst the races in S9E17 not long after it started. IT is heavily implied for G5 that the fighting amongst the ponies persisted for a long time and they refused to listen to reason despite Twilight’s best efforts. You’re acting like Twilight went “oh you’re all fighting amongst yourselves? Say goodbye to your magic!” Yeah, no, that’s not at all what happened.
First, Twilight and co barely tried any friendship in that movie outside of the pirates, the seaponies, and Rarity being nice to Capper. It wasn’t friendship that failed them each time, it was incompetence. Yes, let’s use a Sonic Rainboom when you’re in hiding and reveal your location. Big brain RD. And on that topic, Queen Novo AND Twilight were very bad in that scene, as it was heavily stated that Queen Novo and Princess Celestia are friends, and something friends DON’T do is ignore their friend sending a call for help. The fact that Queen Novo didn’t even get accused of backstabbing CElestia, much less Equestria, was really stupid. The movie has it’s moments but a lot of the movie has too much writing that is clearly rushed.
Also, “It ALSO wasn’t twilight’s first idea whereas the magic sealing was.”? Yeah, dude, the magic sealing wasn’t even her first idea. G5 never implied that sealing the magic was her first idea. Not by a long-shot.
The end of G4 was Twilight in full majestic glory with extremely powerful bonds between species. Ponies and dragons dated, changelings taught classes in schools, Griffons were able to be royal guards, and that’s not even discussing the seaponies/hippogriffs, Yaks, and Kirins who were allies and more with equestria. She didn’t rely in the slightest on the friendship made through all of them and stole and locked all the magic away with no input from any of the other races.
Where did G5 ever imply she didn’t ask them for help at any point. Twilight has been shown to do whatever she can to fix a situation. Is it that far-fetched that that simply didn’t work? Also, Kirins, allies with Equestria? I’m sorry but where do we even SEE Kirins outside of Sounds of Silence? Ffs no Kirins even show up at Twilight’s school, despite Celestia enlisting the other races to attend. I wouldn’t say Griffons were Royal Guards since the only one that is shown that way is Gallus, who in most cases is an exception. Also, ponies and dragons dating? I’d like to see an example of that. Because I’ve never seen anything of that in the show. And let’s be real I wouldn’t want Twilight to rely on the Yaks for any kind of assistance. Outside of Yona, they’re very selfish and act like spoiled brats when they don’t get their way. Their solution to unrest among the pony races would probably make matters WORSE.
Realistically, what Twilight probably did was try to reason with the ponies first and when that didn’t work she probably tried to get Thorax’s help and any of the other races that were willing to help. And for reasons unknown, that didn’t seem to work.
There is also a reason why she doesn’t appear in her Celestia-esque appearance in her Chapter 2 cameo. Which, comes down to Hasbro meddling with MYM. Gillian Berrow intended her to be in that appearance but Hasbro changed to her usual appearance because it would be easier to animate in 3D and more cost-effective. Also the fact that her Celestia-esque appearance was known to be quite unpopular didn’t help matters in Berrow’s favor, either. It’s not like it’s one of my complaints either. I do complain about it as well, but it’s still a kid’s show, her being canonically consistent with G4 when G4 struggled to be canonically consistent with itself is honestly a high bar.
“Plus, the main writer is someone who did extensive work on the story of G4. So I’m pretty sure she knows what she’s doing. But I suppose you think they should’ve had Lauren Faust, who sucks at writing character arcs.”
Bruh, I never brought up Lauren.
I’ve had this same whole debate with so many G4 purists that it’s literally what they say every time. “These writers are so inept. They should’ve brought in Lauren Faust” It’s to the point that I expect it at this point.
Directly tying it to G4 severely limits the writing as it means you MUST write within the confines and rule of G4’s world and the MOMENT you mess up ANY of it, the immersion is broken for anyone who knows, much less loves G4.
You say that like as if G4 hasn’t messed up any of its lore. Maud Pie was revealed as one of Pinkie’s sisters despite her flashback in Cutie Mark Chronicles showing only Marble and Limestone, Celestia and Luna were originally hinted in the first five minutes of S6E1 as being unicorns that earned their wings early on but got retconned when some later merch said they were born as Alicorns, Luna’s design and height was yeeted and changed for seemingly no reason (in its defense, though, Luna Eclipse~onward Luna is far superior, but nothing is explained or hinted at with why she looked different aster the second episode), Celestia not knowing how difficult Luna’s job is despite taking over her job for 1,000 years after banishing her, the Earth Pony’s magic is their connection to the earth as well as their super strength yet they suck at showing it because Big Mac suddenly struggles to lift overpacked saddlebags despite being shown to be able to literally PULL A HOUSE, S5E26 shows Sunburst had both a mother AND a father, but that flashback is the only time his father is shown and is not even present in The Parent Map they literally nuked him from existence, Fluttershy gets shown out of character as early as episode 3, and while we’re at it Filthy Rich got his character assassinated far worse in Equestria Girls (especially Legends of Everfree) where they turned him into basically a carbon copy of Spoiled Rich when Filthy Rich was never shown to do things like that. That’s also not getting into they massive inconsistencies on how long a moon is in G4. You will get completely different answers by each season on how long a moon is. Sometimes, it’s a year, sometimes, it’s a month, sometimes it’s just used to make something sound like a long time. It’s never consistent. In Winter Wrap Up, Twilight says doing it without magic has been a custom for hundreds of years, but in Family Appreciation Day, Granny Smith is revealed as one of the founders of Ponyville.
I want to love G5. When I saw the idea that Spike would be the main tie to G5, I was very eager as Spike is my favorite character (for some reason). While I have no issue of his character, I do hold issue with the sloppy design of the dragons and Spike especially, hence me being so upset about it and persistent to argue against lazy modeling.
Personally I don’t find any issue with the design of the dragons themselves. Yeah, too many of them have a similar body shape and all that, but it is what it is. Spike, yes, should not have had a similar design to the other dragons. Not just because he’s Spike, but because he’s also the Dragon Lord. He should’ve been bigger than the other dragons, at the very least. But, I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s lazy modeling. It literally happens in the final chapter, he gets a very obscure VA (Martin Roach), and his design shows little uniqueness amongst the other dragons. Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure they designed him in a hurry, seeing as the show was confirmed to be ending with Chapters 5&6. I’m pretty certain if the show didn’t end as prematurely as it did, they probably would have put more effort with Spike, even with a better design and more serious VA. But, hey, it’s not like it’s out of the question that they might redesign him for TYT.
What’s also just as bad, if not worse, is Allura. Who is a massive downgrade of a villain compared to Opaline. But I’m not going to constantly complain about it, I’m just going to hope the character gets better. That’s also the main issue with people hating MYM so venomously. It’s only had as much runtime as the first season of FiM. No one gave it a chance to improve, and Chapters 4–6 are definitely massive improvements overall.
I also see a pattern with most of your points. You operate under the logic of “if it isn’t shown or mentioned, then it clearly didn’t happen” like a lot of G4 purists do. Except G5 can’t mention everything and it’s not like G4 doesn’t do the same. There were so many things it didn’t explain (cough cough Pinkie Pie and Applejack may or may not be related, for instance, what happened to Applejack’s parents, who tf Cozy’s parents are or where she came from, why Cozy Glow carries around a LITERAL skull, etc.). And it’s not like G4 is innocent on inconsistencies, as mentioned before.
@Aelvir “She did it because Opaline was manipulating the other ponies so she could steal all the magic for herself and sealing it away was a last-ditch effort to stop her from getting it. Yes I’m sure that makes her a blithering dimwit?”
G4 S9 EP17: The Summer Sun Setback. Queen Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and Tirek work behind the scenes to sabotage everything, with Chrysalis going so far as to re encourage ponies to begin infighting. By the logic used to set up G5, Twilight should have just sealed all magic away and let equestria fall apart while the three tribes continued infighting, ignoring the needs and help of the other species they worked so hard to befriend.
Yes, she’s a blithering dimwit by choosing that option because it wasn’t remotely thought out. It wasn’t like the Twilight we know and love and spent ten years with.
“Secondly, even if it happened the way you said, how is that ANY different than Twilight being so out-of-character in the G4 movie when she tried to steal Novo’s Pearl behind her friend’s back? Something Twilight would not have done. “
Context: Twilight and co have tried repeatedly to use friendship to make allies on their journey outside of equestria and every time it has resulted in them being backstabbed, no matter how honest the being in question seemed to be to them. Stealing the pearl was the plan due to everyone else having betrayed the party and because it was also very clear that the seaponies did not want to help or leave. In the end it didn’t work, but the pearl also meant nothing in the context of the conflict since the hypogriffs didn’t even show up until after the storm king was destroyed. It ALSO wasn’t twilight’s first idea whereas the magic sealing was.
“Also what do you mean swiping all the magic away is not at all what the future we were shown in the end of G4?”
The end of G4 was Twilight in full majestic glory with extremely powerful bonds between species. Ponies and dragons dated, changelings taught classes in schools, Griffons were able to be royal guards, and that’s not even discussing the seaponies/hippogriffs, Yaks, and Kirins who were allies and more with equestria. She didn’t rely in the slightest on the friendship made through all of them and stole and locked all the magic away with no input from any of the other races.
“First, she never swiped it away, she sealed it. It didn’t disappear. It was being protected. Second, what part of the ending of G4 is missing here? “
Twilight was in her past-non-magestic form, which ceased being a thing when the final episode aired. ?
By your own logic, there is nothing that should have made Twilight regress into a form like this as Celestia, Luna, and Cadance all gave up their magic when Tirek invaded, yet there she is, making it blatantly evident that this either:
A: Happened BEFORE G4’s ending (which makes no sense).
B: The writers and animators are utterly inept since this moment only required a single shot of Twilight Sparkle and had to pay to include her, but they didn’t make her into her majestic form, thus opening up a massive plothole and continuity issue.
The inconsistencies in the writing can certainly be PARTLY blamed on the G5 crew not realizing that all G4 references cost money, but then that falls to the writers to NOT make a “house burned down underwater” situation.
“Plus, the main writer is someone who did extensive work on the story of G4. So I’m pretty sure she knows what she’s doing. But I suppose you think they should’ve had Lauren Faust, who sucks at writing character arcs.”
Bruh, I never brought up Lauren.
“Also setting it in a new world would completely eliminate the substance and point of Sunny and Argyle.”
How? How would a pony archeologist finding ancient artifacts and tablets and such that promise and promote the bonding of the three tribes be lesser if the unknown ancient source WASN’T the G4 ponies? If anything it give a massive stepping stone and clean slate to write a unique past that involved MANY aspects of different MLP generations. Directly tying it to G4 severely limits the writing as it means you MUST write within the confines and rule of G4’s world and the MOMENT you mess up ANY of it, the immersion is broken for anyone who knows, much less loves G4.
I want to love G5. When I saw the idea that Spike would be the main tie to G5, I was very eager as Spike is my favorite character (for some reason). While I have no issue of his character, I do hold issue with the sloppy design of the dragons and Spike especially, hence me being so upset about it and persistent to argue against lazy modeling.
@Daneasaur
The idea that Twilight did it just because ponies started arguing has been the longest running misconception of that plotpoint. She did it because Opaline was manipulating the other ponies so she could steal all the magic for herself and sealing it away was a last-ditch effort to stop her from getting it. Yes I’m sure that makes her a blithering dimwit? It’s not that much different from how Celestia, Luna, and Cadance gave all their magic to Twilight in S4 so Tirek couldn’t steal it.
Secondly, even if it happened the way you said, how is that ANY different than Twilight being so out-of-character in the G4 movie when she tried to steal Novo’s Pearl behind her friend’s back? Something Twilight would not have done. THAT was insulting to Twilight’s character. Also Twilight sealing Magic out of desperation is not that far-fetched as she’s done a lot of things on impulse out of panic. It is rather annoying when people expect Twilight to be this selfless, all-perfect Saint that never loses her cool. Twilight has and never will be like that.
Also what do you mean swiping all the magic away is not at all what the future we were shown in the end of G4?
First, she never swiped it away, she sealed it. It didn’t disappear. It was being protected.
Second, what part of the ending of G4 is missing here? Twilight rules as the ruler of Equestria after G4. That is pretty set in stone in G5. Nothing changed there. It’s not like all that stuff happened immediately after S9. It was within an at least 1000-year time frame that it happened. We only get feed bits and pieces of what happened during that time gap, but none of it is being devalued here. More of it definitely would have been revealed and explained a lot better if people weren’t being so venemous about it and acting like it’s the worst thing ever. It isn’t perfect sure but it could be way, WAY worse.
Plus, the main writer is someone who did extensive work on the story of G4. So I’m pretty sure she knows what she’s doing. But I suppose you think they should’ve had Lauren Faust, who sucks at writing character arcs.
Also setting it in a new world would completely eliminate the substance and point of Sunny and Argyle.
I don’t see how the writers dropped the ball when most people who criticize the Story don’t even watch the show to get their facts right, pay attention, or even remotely make sense. To me it feels like people just like to complain about something they don’t like instead of letting something with potential actually grow and get better. People will be unhappy with G5 no matter how they did it. People can’t even be happy with G4 S9.
@Aelvir
The inconsistencies DO matter as the major one is an implication that twilight destroys equestria because a couple of ponies started arguing. Making twilight a blithering dimwit that swipes all the magic away is not at all what the future we were shown in the end of G4 and seeing it turned into that is, frankly, insulting if we’re supposed to take it as a g4 continuation.
It just has to be an alt-verse at this point since the writers dropped the ball so hard, not realizing the royalties they would need to pay to keep linking G5 to G4.
Really should have been a clean slate in a new pony world with just vague references.
@Aelvir
So that’s the Doylist (real world) reason.
I always like to consider Watsonian (in-universe) reasons as well.
Still, good to know, thank you for that information.
@Luminous Comet
There’s actually a reason for the inconsistencies. It’s because the more references they put to G4 the more they have to pay royalties to Discovery Family.
And outside of Earth Pony magic, most of the inconsistencies don’t really matter and are no different than the inconsistencies in G4.
@Daneasaur
Not the first and only show to do it. Retcons and continuity errors happen. Just because we’re supposed to love the show doesn’t mean we should expect it to be absolutely perfect.
@Wayneponeth
Dragon fire IS special and can actually be used to fight against magic. That said, beyond that, the only thing it’s been shown to do is transport scrolls, which Lauren specifically had as the scrolls being the tool containing the magic there, not specifically Spike’s fire.
And yeah, a winged baby dragon does lean more heavily into the implication that there was some dragon genocide, either intentional or natural. Even if it isn’t tied to reproduction specifically, it means evolution required the babies to be able to fly so as to escape whatever danger they would be born into.
Also yes. There is just no way Discord could be absent. He would do SOMETHING to prevent Fluttershy from dying, or would warp the world in a bout of final chaos because of her loss, or at the very least, he’d keep her sanctuary safe, meaning no matter the timespan, there would be this one untouched place in post-equestria where the world changes would have no effect.
@Daneasaur
Dragons do have magic though. Their fires are actually pretty magic like.
And I mean that could also be a possibility, dragon genocide, where after such event some that survive eventually evolve into being born with wings. Again, we don’t know how long it’s been between G5 and G4. It could be more than a million year for all we know and an evolution happening during that period of time doesn’t seem implausible.
(But really I guess it would be better to it G4 and G5 have nothing to do with each other, because that means Discord would really stop existing. If people are really that hellbent on this belief, might as well find something positive from it.)
@Wayneponeth
Again, we had a bunch of benchmarks in G4 for reference, what magic can or can’t do, different types of magic, and what is classified as “normal weird” and “weird weird”.
Dragons with wings in G4 = They have gone through puberty and their body is now ready to do adult things. If this is still G4’s universe, and we have a dragon who is born with wings, this implies several possible things:
~Dragons originally lived for thousands of years. If they are skipping the baby phase and started needing to mature faster, this implies something was killing them off in droves and they needed to adapt.
~Dragons don’t have any magic abilities and are nearly impervious to it. This would mean the evolution for this to take place happened naturally, implying not not hundred or thousands of years ed in G4’s world, but MILLIONS of years in order for that drastic of a shift to happen.
OR
We can shrug and say this isn’t G4’s universe, therefore we don’t need to hold it to the rules G4’s universe follows.
@Daneasaur
ah yes, winged baby dragons would truly be a disturbing concept in the universe that has (flips through notes) Discord, changelings, bugbears, demons, sirens, nightmare creatures and literal hellhounds
@Daneasaur
Wait, what about it would be disturbing biologically when that world is full of biologically impossible and fictional creatures ever since G1, like horses with wings and horns? And what do we know of dragons, creatures that don’t actually exist, in of biology? And do people just forget Flurry Heart happened? And finally do people forget that these creatures are magical and… aren’t real?
…so uh…guess you’re happy that G5 came to an end then?
“What happened between G4 and G5 is the biggest problem with people judging G5. They don’t judge it as G5, they judge it as “how faithful is it to G4?””
your current filter.First, my Point was that The Yaks have always been Self-concerned. They never Chose to help ponies on their own. The only time they did was because of Yona. Not to mention when they needed help the openly refused help and hoped the ponies secretly helped them because they have such fragile Pride. In the case of an emergency, it’s very likely they wouldn’t help.
And I’ll be honest it’s not so much the been faces that kill it for me, it’s all the overuse of magnet hooves and the rubber hose style of limb movement with the show. They move too uncannily for my liking. But I definitely wouldn’t say the artstyle is atrocious, I’ve seen so much worse. But honestly, it’s not surprising Hasbro capitalized on the most popular artstyle for children’s cartoons. Also why even bring up TYT, we weren’t even talking about that.
The fact that your ing statements as to why G5 “Makes perfect sense and is fine” are “they didn’t say anything about it so it likely happened (that’s the opposite of proof BTW)”, “Yaks would be useless/make it worse (Yaks don’t have magic and are obscenely physically strong to the point they are considered a dangerous nation amidst a world full of magic using creatures, so having them as allies against a magic thief is a very good thing)”, and “the design wasn’t popular so they used her pre-finale look (this made a gaping plothole to save money)”, really should explain why I’m so frustrated with G5.
The villain trio’s plans in S9E17 isn’t exactly a good comparison. You know who was with her during that? Her friends, as well as Discord AND Celestia and Luna. Guess who wasn’t there for Twilight when she was dealing with Opaline? Celestia and Luna, probably Discord, and it’s uncertain whether or not her friends have past away yet at the time. It’s still all conjecture. IF we take into consideration that her friends have long since sed away (given Opaline’s a villain and waiting until her friends away and strike when Twilight is vulnerable would be a villain thing to do). Futhermore, Twilight and her friends managed to fix the fighting amongst the races in S9E17 not long after it started. IT is heavily implied for G5 that the fighting amongst the ponies persisted for a long time and they refused to listen to reason despite Twilight’s best efforts. You’re acting like Twilight went “oh you’re all fighting amongst yourselves? Say goodbye to your magic!” Yeah, no, that’s not at all what happened.
Also, “It ALSO wasn’t twilight’s first idea whereas the magic sealing was.”? Yeah, dude, the magic sealing wasn’t even her first idea. G5 never implied that sealing the magic was her first idea. Not by a long-shot.
Where did G5 ever imply she didn’t ask them for help at any point. Twilight has been shown to do whatever she can to fix a situation. Is it that far-fetched that that simply didn’t work? Also, Kirins, allies with Equestria? I’m sorry but where do we even SEE Kirins outside of Sounds of Silence? Ffs no Kirins even show up at Twilight’s school, despite Celestia enlisting the other races to attend. I wouldn’t say Griffons were Royal Guards since the only one that is shown that way is Gallus, who in most cases is an exception. Also, ponies and dragons dating? I’d like to see an example of that. Because I’ve never seen anything of that in the show. And let’s be real I wouldn’t want Twilight to rely on the Yaks for any kind of assistance. Outside of Yona, they’re very selfish and act like spoiled brats when they don’t get their way. Their solution to unrest among the pony races would probably make matters WORSE.
Realistically, what Twilight probably did was try to reason with the ponies first and when that didn’t work she probably tried to get Thorax’s help and any of the other races that were willing to help. And for reasons unknown, that didn’t seem to work.
Bruh, I never brought up Lauren.
I’ve had this same whole debate with so many G4 purists that it’s literally what they say every time. “These writers are so inept. They should’ve brought in Lauren Faust” It’s to the point that I expect it at this point.
You say that like as if G4 hasn’t messed up any of its lore. Maud Pie was revealed as one of Pinkie’s sisters despite her flashback in Cutie Mark Chronicles showing only Marble and Limestone, Celestia and Luna were originally hinted in the first five minutes of S6E1 as being unicorns that earned their wings early on but got retconned when some later merch said they were born as Alicorns, Luna’s design and height was yeeted and changed for seemingly no reason (in its defense, though, Luna Eclipse~onward Luna is far superior, but nothing is explained or hinted at with why she looked different aster the second episode), Celestia not knowing how difficult Luna’s job is despite taking over her job for 1,000 years after banishing her, the Earth Pony’s magic is their connection to the earth as well as their super strength yet they suck at showing it because Big Mac suddenly struggles to lift overpacked saddlebags despite being shown to be able to literally PULL A HOUSE, S5E26 shows Sunburst had both a mother AND a father, but that flashback is the only time his father is shown and is not even present in The Parent Map they literally nuked him from existence, Fluttershy gets shown out of character as early as episode 3, and while we’re at it Filthy Rich got his character assassinated far worse in Equestria Girls (especially Legends of Everfree) where they turned him into basically a carbon copy of Spoiled Rich when Filthy Rich was never shown to do things like that. That’s also not getting into they massive inconsistencies on how long a moon is in G4. You will get completely different answers by each season on how long a moon is. Sometimes, it’s a year, sometimes, it’s a month, sometimes it’s just used to make something sound like a long time. It’s never consistent. In Winter Wrap Up, Twilight says doing it without magic has been a custom for hundreds of years, but in Family Appreciation Day, Granny Smith is revealed as one of the founders of Ponyville.
Personally I don’t find any issue with the design of the dragons themselves. Yeah, too many of them have a similar body shape and all that, but it is what it is. Spike, yes, should not have had a similar design to the other dragons. Not just because he’s Spike, but because he’s also the Dragon Lord. He should’ve been bigger than the other dragons, at the very least. But, I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s lazy modeling. It literally happens in the final chapter, he gets a very obscure VA (Martin Roach), and his design shows little uniqueness amongst the other dragons. Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure they designed him in a hurry, seeing as the show was confirmed to be ending with Chapters 5&6. I’m pretty certain if the show didn’t end as prematurely as it did, they probably would have put more effort with Spike, even with a better design and more serious VA. But, hey, it’s not like it’s out of the question that they might redesign him for TYT.
What’s also just as bad, if not worse, is Allura. Who is a massive downgrade of a villain compared to Opaline. But I’m not going to constantly complain about it, I’m just going to hope the character gets better. That’s also the main issue with people hating MYM so venomously. It’s only had as much runtime as the first season of FiM. No one gave it a chance to improve, and Chapters 4–6 are definitely massive improvements overall.
Edited
You must be so much fun at parties
“She did it because Opaline was manipulating the other ponies so she could steal all the magic for herself and sealing it away was a last-ditch effort to stop her from getting it. Yes I’m sure that makes her a blithering dimwit?”
The end of G4 was Twilight in full majestic glory with extremely powerful bonds between species. Ponies and dragons dated, changelings taught classes in schools, Griffons were able to be royal guards, and that’s not even discussing the seaponies/hippogriffs, Yaks, and Kirins who were allies and more with equestria. She didn’t rely in the slightest on the friendship made through all of them and stole and locked all the magic away with no input from any of the other races.
Twilight was in her past-non-magestic form, which ceased being a thing when the final episode aired. ?
your current filter.
your current filter.A: Happened BEFORE G4’s ending (which makes no sense).
B: The writers and animators are utterly inept since this moment only required a single shot of Twilight Sparkle and had to pay to include her, but they didn’t make her into her majestic form, thus opening up a massive plothole and continuity issue.
The idea that Twilight did it just because ponies started arguing has been the longest running misconception of that plotpoint. She did it because Opaline was manipulating the other ponies so she could steal all the magic for herself and sealing it away was a last-ditch effort to stop her from getting it. Yes I’m sure that makes her a blithering dimwit? It’s not that much different from how Celestia, Luna, and Cadance gave all their magic to Twilight in S4 so Tirek couldn’t steal it.
First, she never swiped it away, she sealed it. It didn’t disappear. It was being protected.
Second, what part of the ending of G4 is missing here? Twilight rules as the ruler of Equestria after G4. That is pretty set in stone in G5. Nothing changed there. It’s not like all that stuff happened immediately after S9. It was within an at least 1000-year time frame that it happened. We only get feed bits and pieces of what happened during that time gap, but none of it is being devalued here. More of it definitely would have been revealed and explained a lot better if people weren’t being so venemous about it and acting like it’s the worst thing ever. It isn’t perfect sure but it could be way, WAY worse.
Plus, the main writer is someone who did extensive work on the story of G4. So I’m pretty sure she knows what she’s doing. But I suppose you think they should’ve had Lauren Faust, who sucks at writing character arcs.
Edited
The inconsistencies DO matter as the major one is an implication that twilight destroys equestria because a couple of ponies started arguing. Making twilight a blithering dimwit that swipes all the magic away is not at all what the future we were shown in the end of G4 and seeing it turned into that is, frankly, insulting if we’re supposed to take it as a g4 continuation.
So that’s the Doylist (real world) reason.
I always like to consider Watsonian (in-universe) reasons as well.
Still, good to know, thank you for that information.
There’s actually a reason for the inconsistencies. It’s because the more references they put to G4 the more they have to pay royalties to Discovery Family.
And outside of Earth Pony magic, most of the inconsistencies don’t really matter and are no different than the inconsistencies in G4.
Not the first and only show to do it. Retcons and continuity errors happen. Just because we’re supposed to love the show doesn’t mean we should expect it to be absolutely perfect.
I know but he seems to be bad again. I don’t know if it’s better or worse for everyone. I’m not gonna share my opinions.
Edited
Fair enough.
Nah, he doesn’t care enough to do that, but I like to think he doesn’t exist at all more.
Dragon fire IS special and can actually be used to fight against magic. That said, beyond that, the only thing it’s been shown to do is transport scrolls, which Lauren specifically had as the scrolls being the tool containing the magic there, not specifically Spike’s fire.
Edited
Dragons do have magic though. Their fires are actually pretty magic like.
Again, we had a bunch of benchmarks in G4 for reference, what magic can or can’t do, different types of magic, and what is classified as “normal weird” and “weird weird”.
Dragons with wings in G4 = They have gone through puberty and their body is now ready to do adult things. If this is still G4’s universe, and we have a dragon who is born with wings, this implies several possible things:
~Dragons originally lived for thousands of years. If they are skipping the baby phase and started needing to mature faster, this implies something was killing them off in droves and they needed to adapt.
~Dragons don’t have any magic abilities and are nearly impervious to it. This would mean the evolution for this to take place happened naturally, implying not not hundred or thousands of years ed in G4’s world, but MILLIONS of years in order for that drastic of a shift to happen.
ah yes, winged baby dragons would truly be a disturbing concept in the universe that has (flips through notes) Discord, changelings, bugbears, demons, sirens, nightmare creatures and literal hellhounds
Edited
Wait, what about it would be disturbing biologically when that world is full of biologically impossible and fictional creatures ever since G1, like horses with wings and horns? And what do we know of dragons, creatures that don’t actually exist, in of biology? And do people just forget Flurry Heart happened? And finally do people forget that these creatures are magical and… aren’t real?