@oddball 623A
It’s not ad hominem if he’s actually racist.
I’ll bet that if it had been ponies he would have recommended disciplinary action against the students, not freaked out and shut the school down. You’ll note that he never actually reviewed the curriculum, inspected the school, consulted the committee, or observed the school during normal school activities. Instead, he saw non-ponies at the school and exploited a single event of misbehavior close the entire school down without any due process.
As to the “damage and danger” of the situation. I seem to serious damage to Celestia’s school when Twilight applied, and what are probably highly illegal spells (e.g. turning sapient ponies into plants). It’s a cartoon show. Mistakes have over-the-top consequences.
Lastly. Listen to his words.
“These are students?!” Expresses complete shock “You said you were opening this school to protect Equestria; to defend ponies from DANGERIOUS CREATURES,” and then points at everyone who isn’t a pony.
If you don’t read racism into that, you’re clearly missing the point. I’m not sure how they could have been any more obvious about it while keeping it kid-friendly.
It’s not ad hominem if he’s actually racist.
I’ll bet that if it had been ponies he would have recommended disciplinary action against the students, not freaked out and shut the school down. You’ll note that he never actually reviewed the curriculum, inspected the school, consulted the committee, or observed the school during normal school activities. Instead, he saw non-ponies at the school and exploited a single event of misbehavior close the entire school down without any due process.
As to the “damage and danger” of the situation. I seem to serious damage to Celestia’s school when Twilight applied, and what are probably highly illegal spells (e.g. turning sapient ponies into plants). It’s a cartoon show. Mistakes have over-the-top consequences.
Lastly. Listen to his words.
“These are students?!” Expresses complete shock “You said you were opening this school to protect Equestria; to defend ponies from DANGERIOUS CREATURES,” and then points at everyone who isn’t a pony.
If you don’t read racism into that, you’re clearly missing the point. I’m not sure how they could have been any more obvious about it while keeping it kid-friendly.
Well you are right about the fact that naysay DID Had good intentions with doing Extreme Actions
so yes you are correct about that
Unfortunately, if the leaks are to be believed, he’ll be the one causing said invasion.
Chancellor Neighsay: You can’t do this to me! I’m the head of the EEA! I hope you’re happy, Twilight Sparkle. You’ve destroyed this land! Equestria is dead! Where will everypony get their defences now?! The attacks and invasions will only get worse BECAUSE OF YOU!!!
Yeah. While I favor hard truth and harsh honesty over empty courtesies, he was too angry and spiteful. He should have been at least nice and calm while saying those things and have a quiet talk with everyone…let everyone speak and explain the accident. He spoke only him and acted tyrannical and impatient. Perhaps the last invasion by Stormy still burns in his nationalistic heart.
He insulted them to their face. There is a thing called diplomacy. He should have known better.
That’s only because those races are easy to upset. They wanted to start a war over accusations based on facts that happened before. Shows that those races are indeed dangerous and easy to provoke.
And he still almost started a war.
Out of all jerks and villains, Neighsay is the only one with reasonable motivations, yet he never really hurt anyone and wasn’t even a villain. The others before him were just corrupt or too whiny and selfserving on their own “tragedies”. At Neighsay is loyal to his country and has beliefs of protect his own kind, rather than “muh personal tragic background I want to murder everyone”. This guy is opposed against rather dangerous and aggressive races…a sleeping dragon almost smoked Ponyville without giving a damn, Garble wanted to burn everything, adult dragons attack others for little to no reason other than anger, the yaks destroyed everything and declared war over nothing, the griffons are rude and insensitive, changelings used to be terrorist emotion vampires, and other non-ponies were evil monsters or aggressive. I’d be paranoid and mistrusting too.
Edited
@cloudkicker108
Just to add,
Twilight Sparkle apologizes for her students’ behavior and is notably glaring at them.
I don’t think she was going to lightly let them go undisciplined for their actions in crashing the school parent-teacher conference and skipping class.
She didn’t have the chance to though, since Neighsay became outraged that they were students.
So more pony nationalist than pony supremacist.
Can individuals produce enough hate to attract them or does it need to be in mass?
That is not what I said and you know it.
Hey, Chancellor Neighsayer did nothing wrong. He just wants to secure the existence of his people and a future for pony children. All glory to the pony ethnostate.
You’re deflecting the argument. No one here is claiming that Neighsay’s racist behavior serves as an excuse for the students damaging the school. All we’re saying is that the notion of teaching ponies to defend themselves, while a good thought in general, is discredited in Neighsay’s specific context.
No one in that moment knew it could be quickly reversed. Moreover, the speed at which everything occurred does not diminish the dangers that were (temporarily) present.
Are we even reading the same comment chain? I don’t see anyone excusing the damage done by the students, at least not in an ethical sense. Sure, we’ve explained that possibly of physical injury in the world of Equestria isn’t as high because of cartoon physics, but no one is arguing that what the students did wasn’t wrong.
There isn’t a specific scene of the mane six checking on everyone because, despite the spectacle of the incident, no one actually got hurt (a combination both everyone being able to dodge out the way and cartoon physics) and there are much more important things that need the be addressed in the already very limited time of the episode (fun fact: Vogel and Dubuc had to cut 8 pages worth of script just to meet the time requirements for the premiere). While blaming the destruction to the school on Neighsay’s racism would constitute an ad hominem, that’s not the connection we’re trying to make here.
Injured, maybe. But “killed” in this situation is a bit of a stretch. We’re talking about the world of Equestria, after all. Given the general responses to situations in show that would be lethal by our standards but ponies and other characters have been able to easily walk away from, Twilight’s response here is frankly par for the course in Equestria.
Again, no one else is trying to connect those two incidents except for you. We’re all aware Neighsay’s racism has nothing to do with the actions of the students. As I said above, the point we are trying to make is that Neighsay’s racism taints that otherwise valid goal of teaching ponies to defend themselves.
Edited
His being racist is 100% unrelated to the fact that the school was 9-11’d. So, bringing it up as an excuse for the act of 9-11’ing a school is something of an ad hominem. You can’t really escape this.
And it was reversed easily and in short order.
No sides are being stepped. A quick, cursory glance at the comment chain - and, in fact, any comment chain involving the character - reveals that people by and large excuse the damage and potential risk caused by the students. Rather than acknowledging two problems, they’re acknowledging one and excusing the other.
If the scene included the Mane 6, or the parents of the students, getting involved in making sure everyone was okay only to then have the chancellor be a racist douche, then the scene would have been much more effective. As it was, though, they all stood around and went “oops.” Then Naysay got mad, exposed himself as a racist, and that made everything that came before okay in the minds of the characters, and the community.
It’s the dictionary definition of an ad hominem, and it conveniently ignores the issue of the school being 9-11’d and no one apparently caring.
Ponies were nearly killed. “They got a little carried away” isn’t exactly an appropriate response. Were the students reprimanded by the faculty? Did Twilight, or any of the others, indicate that any steps would be taken to ensure that it doesn’t happen again? The answer is no.
But Naysay is racist. So the fact that innocent bystanders were put in harm’s way is justified in your eyes, I suppose.
Excuse me for expecting better story telling.
Edited
Neighsay’s racism isn’t an ad hominem, though. His desire for ponykind to be adequately prepared for outside threats is directly tied to his belief that all the other species are nothing more than uncivilized barbarians who are inherently disposed to attacking and pillaging others for their own gain.
To a racist, it makes no difference if one their own kind is present when other kinds are still around. For Neighsay, a pony associated with the other species is no better than the other species themselves. Given how strongly he feels about the matter, he might even see them as traitors.
I’d say being magically immobilized by an overpowered, unstable filly and the possibly being stuck as a plant for the rest of your life constitutes a pretty real danger.
You’re sidestepping the issue here. No one is excusing the students for skipping class, no matter ineffective the curriculum was. Or for the damage they did to the school. And what indication do you have that Twilight and her friends aren’t committed to preventing such dangerous behaviors in the future?
You’re not even being consistent now. Earlier, you essentially told us we shouldn’t contemplate what-ifs for the Twilight incident. So why, then, are we now obligated to consider those kinds of hypotheticals for this particular situation?
Where on earth did you get the idea the mane 6 and the other of the faculty were completely fine with school rules being openly ignored and destruction of school property? Sure, they certainly didn’t see that behavior as reason to shut down the entire school indefinitely, but by no means did they condone any part of that. Twilight outright states that her students “got a little carried away” while looking visibly upset.
{hands her a pistol and two packs of bullets}
“Hollowpoint or jacketed?”
An ad hominem is attacking an unrelated aspect of the character in order to discredit him. The primary issue at the forefront is the damage that the students caused, and the negligence of the school faculty. While Naysay should absolutely be removed from his position for his positions regarding his racism, that does not suddenly mean that the students didn’t just 9/11 their school building and endanger the lives of several ponies in the vicinity.
What he would have done if it was a pony student (never mind the fact that one of them was) is wholly irrelevant.
With regards to the Twilight incident: We didn’t see the full extent of damage, nor did we see any ponies placed in direct danger as we did in School Daze.
Of course Naysay is a bigot. However: Using that as an excuse for the students to skip class and nearly kill ponies, as well as causing extensive property damage is silly. Neither would, nor should, the school faculty be excused from their non-committal stance regarding not letting it happen again.
What if it were to become a regular event? What if students were inside the tower the next time it happens? What if bystanders actually DO get crushed? Are we supposed to assume that ponies are immortal, and that their running away from impending physical harm is just a game?
Clearly the tone being portrayed in that scene was one of danger. Danger which the students created, and the school staff not only allowed to happen, but appears to have been completely fine with.