Keep in mind that Sombra acts the same way towards Discord, who is definitively more powerful than Celestia + Luna without harmony (to the point that Discord is the status quo until Harmony changes things). I think you’re reading too much into the fact that Sombra doesn’t it or maybe even realize when he’s outmatched, whereas Chrysalis oscillates wildly in her self-appraisal and really just in general.
True enough; S9 didn’t quite do Sombra any favors in of feeling quite right.
What? Twilight just one-shots him as soon as she stops moping. Celestia likewise frames it as her & Luna leaving the castle undefended by not being there and calls Twilight not asking for help a mistake, so everypony other than Sombra seems to be on the same page that Celestia + Luna would have beaten him without much trouble (which actually happens).
…You’re kinda brushing over the fact that Twilight was not alone, in saying that. That was Friendship Boosted PowerTM, not her base, unaided power.
I’m not denying that the Mane Six utterly obliterated him, but you’re glossing over how she didn’t solo murder him past a beam clash where she started audibly straining before her friends combined strength with her.
but it really comes across like he’s stronger than Discord when he’s not powered down.
It’s perhaps worth noting Tirek couldn’t have been defeated with the Elements as the backstory went, because Star Swirl was still around when he lost the first time, and the Tree of Harmony came around after he went to Limbo.
Yes, he obviously was stronger than Discord when he took his magic, but the Sisters (perhaps with Star Swirl’s help) implicitly somehow beat Tirek when he was closer to his “default” level of power in the backstory.
The problem that had Celestia panicking very well could’ve been more the possibility of it being a needle in a haystack before it was too late, as far as actually finding him before an alicorn search party became too risky, splitting up, and when he had Discord by his side, that was the point in particular where she got desperate.
The fact that Twilog is beating Chrysalis shouldn’t be seen as an indictment of Chrysalis powerlevel because Mean Twilight is Chrysalis’ spell.
…Shouldn’t it? By all means, I’m not denying it’s still really impressive in the grand scheme of things to be anywhere near Twilight’s level of power, even at her lowest point in of raw strength. It simply means that she isn’t that infallible in the grand scheme of things, unboosted, alone.
Chrysalis did create someone better than herself, one way or the other.
To me this just reads as Chrysalis playing with her food. We know she has telekinesis good enough to do the Twilight/Luna/Discord thing of just instantly grabbing ponies and holding them against a wall, so there’s no reason why e.g. powerless Starlight in the throneroom faced against a Chrysalis who has captured the entire cast (and so is presumably in a mode where she could beamclash Celestia) should be able to dodge her for more than a second other than that Chrysalis isn’t taking it seriously.
She was taking her actual fight with Starlight seriously in S9, no? That was the point I was trying to make. She did not seem like she was toying around in that instance, so either it was her being particularly dumb, or telekinesis isn’t necessarily always an instawin, for whatever reason, in magic fights.
Sombra I don’t think beats Chrysalis under any circumstance for any period of time unless she was literally just depowered with a harmony beam in the previous scene.
…?????
…Yeah I think that’s never going to see a consensus. I think it would be doing us both a favor if we stopped bringing up Sombra.
100% of his success seems to be from the fear spell and outside of it (comparing e.g. using Telekinesis on the same object) he’s at best as powerful as Cadence.
Honestly, Cadance’s S2 feat alone was better than Celestia and Luna combined in the show, in ejecting an entire army while discriminating friend and foe, if you’re willing to use combined feats as in the case of Twilight, lol.
It’s generous to even call them fanfiction.
And yet the comics still, in the end, got mentioned in the show more than fanfics generally do, in bringing up the existence of Vorak, no? It’s still more food for thought if you don’t have pretty much… anything else to go off of in a given instance, as I see it.
She dreamt that a NMM-like Celestia would say that. And that’s absolutely the sort of thing that NMM would actually say, and I don’t think that Glimmy even knows what NMM is like other than by secondhand description anyway, so like, you’re really reaching here I feel.
So, in defiance of usual narrative and thematic norms, where is the reason to think there be absolutely zero power boosting from giving into the dark side? I get that it can be argued it’s a stretch, but when everything else is pointing to “they gain power,” I’d want a given narrative reason to believe that this isn’t the case, since nobody goes back on that type of statement.
And your second point was literally from Starlight’s dream. I’m sorry, but there was little to suggest otherwise. How else would Daybreaker even appear there and never get mentioned again?
Would you argue that Starlight is someone who knows nothing about magic?
If not, then even based on the assumption that Daybreaker was purely a figment of Starlight’s imagination, why would you argue that it’s an irrational fear of Starlight’s to have her think that Celestia would be more powerful as Daybreaker, given Celestia seemed to also believe this to be true, given the lack of counterarguments?
I don’t think it’s as compelling an argument as people think it is, considering this was both explicitly addressed, and demonstrated within the same episode.
Rainbow Dash: I can totally fly up there and bust those puppies! No problem!
Princess Celestia: I wouldn’t advise it, Rainbow Dash. Those storm clouds are not like the ones you know.
Princess Luna: This far north, the weather has a will of its own, and now it will only grow stronger, enveloping everything in its path.
When Rainbow Dash tried her hoof at it, she didn’t even last like, ten seconds, when she was demonstrated to be trying to fight the weather, and to top it off, she wanted to stop flying, while Celestia and Luna were still flying, despite fighting the weather for a much longer period of time.
So… where’s the reason to think that the likes of Chrysalis or Cozy would fight the storm that much better, these things considered?
Still think they would win. I mean, there’s nothing to suggest that Daybreaker would be stronger then Celestia, who, if you , jobbed almost every time in the show, even to a storm. Same goes to NMM.
As for the point at large, why would you try to assert that their evil selves aren’t gaining any power whatsoever? It’s made clear that emotions, positive or negative, light side or dark side, can influence magical strength at numerous points in the franchise, show or otherwise; they later tried to handwave Starlight keeping up with Twilight in S5 as such as such, and the Wedding’s ending had “my love will give you strength” taken… quite literally.
It’s also, likewise established that confidence influences how great a flier a pegasus is, to the point that Fluttershy caught up to Rainbow Dash when sufficiently motivated in the S2 premiere.
Rainbow Dash: Of course not! Flying is like thirty percent skill and seventy percent confidence! You can’t mess with a flyer’s confidence!
What would the appeal of the “dark side” be if it gave you no tangible benefits from giving in to your darker self?
Princess Celestia: This can’t be!
Daybreaker: If Luna can turn into Nightmare Moon, you can absolutely turn into me — Daybreaker! The better, prettier, and more powerful version of you!
Princess Celestia: No! I’ll never turn into you!
Daybreaker: Deep inside, you know how powerful you are. You don’t need Luna.
Princess Celestia: That’s not true! Even when we were apart, I knew I needed her!
Daybreaker: [laughs] Oh, please! You don’t need anypony! You can do whatever you want. And all you have to do is get rid of anypony who stands in your way!
Considering how personally Celestia was taking it, it’s not a stretch to presume that Celestia has a reason to think this way, as far as insecurities.
(Plus, considering Luna somehow knew Daybreaker’s name without it being said to her in the episode… the implication seems clear that it was a bit “more” than just being Starlight’s dream)
